Pre-school

[Lovechop]

My son has two more school years before he'll start kindergarten. My husband and I are trying to decide A) whether to put him in a pre-school for 1 or 2 years and B) which pre-school to send him to. We live in Tooele, UT. Any suggestions? If you have specific pre-schools that you've been happy with, let me know if they have a website. I'm also curious if anyone knows if the elementary and high schools offer pre-school classes. Thanks!

[Big_Sissy]

Hey, welcome LC, it's good to have you here.

Can I ask what your intention or goal for getting your son in pre-school is?

Personally, I'm not "for" putting children in a traditional pre-school. Getting them together for some fun, creative activities, & socializing is awesome and not what I would consider "traditional." Though, I'll be honest and say that I'm not really aware of what traditional pre-school is about either.

My thoughts are that once they start school they are in it for a long time. Why start them early? I do not believe they have an advantage by doing so either. Maybe if our school systems rewarded and could "fast-track" a child that was ahead of his/her age group it might be beneficial, but with the current system, after a year or two they will be at the same level as everyone else, with the exception of those subjects that they love and truly excel at -- which would happen regardless.

So unless you are looking for "educational day-care," which I do not believe you are, I would skip it personally.

So, IF the pre-school was not actually similar to traditional school, and included fun activities, opportunities to expand their creative minds, and socializing I would be for it.

If it includes learning reading, writing, & arithmetic, I'd skip it, and spend those few years you have with the little ones and really enjoy it. Believe me, they grow up way too fast as it is.

So for what it's worth, those are my thoughts, and not even what you asked for -- so feel free to ignore me and do as you please and what you feel is best for you and your young family.

[Lovechop]

Thanks for your thoughts, BS! Although I have a number of reasons that I've wanted to have my son in pre-school, I do have a few top reasons.

The social interaction is huge--but not just the normal interaction that I can give them with playdates, but more in a group setting (and not within the family) where he has a chance to practice the behavior that will be required once he gets to school, i.e. sitting with the group and giving attn. to the teacher, talking when called on, etc. I know that he'll start learning those things in church too, but I think the reinforcement that it's not just a church atmosphere would help him realize we do it in a number of settings. The other part that goes along with that is respecting perfect strangers, even when mom and dad aren't around. Although he'll surely learn that eventually, the sooner the better, right?

The second thing would be having him develop a love and thirst for learning so he'll be SELF-motivated when he reaches grade-school. I give him plenty of opportunities to learn those things at home, and truthfully I feel like it's more than sufficient, but I still think it would be fun for him to be with a teacher that has a background in these things and can offer more activities that she knows provoke the interest and the previously mentioned qualities in children. I am NOT in the smallest way concerned about him learning the ABC's and 123's--we've already got that down and with two more years until kindergarten, we'll be MORE than ready.

I know that my last reason may sound strange, but it is what it is. I can see from church classes how good it is for him to have SMALL breaks from my hubbie and I to do things with other groups. Although I'm not sure all children need that as much as him, I've definitely seen that he is already developing a part of himself that likes to have his OWN little life. I'm not explaining that well, but hopefully you can catch the point. Just like if we enrolled him in swimming lessons or soccer, he has something that he looks forward to and is excited to tell us about afterwards. I would honestly say that it's far more HIM having a break from ME than it is the other way around!

So...I totally understand what you're saying and I agree...he doesn't NEED to have it, but we feel like at least for the one year before kindergarten we'd LIKE to let him do it. For me it really is like the swimming or soccer...just building up interest and having fun.

[runamyrun]

I can definitely understand your last reason. My 7 year old son and I are a lot alike. When he was your son's age, we also got on each others' nerves. He went to preschool, and I felt it was really good for him. He really needed a break from me. I also felt that I appreciated him more when he was home. With my 4 year old daughter, I have felt differently. She has a different personality than my son, and I felt that she would be fine with me teaching her preschool. I did want her to be able to socialize with other kids, so I was so happy when Stargazer (I think that is her user name) asked if I wanted to do preschool with her (and she was so amazing to do it all after I had my baby!). All children are different and some may do really well in preschool while others do well at home.

I have a friend who took her daughter to Crystal Lawrence for preschool. I think she was happy with her. I have also heard that the high school has a preschool. Sorry, but I don't know any more than that. Good luck with deciding!

[Big_Sissy]

Fair enough -- just wanted to give my 1.02 worth. As my title says "Feel free to ignore me"

[missypoohsticks]

I put my daughter in preschool for just one year, because like you, I knew that she would be more than ready. I wanted her to get used to a classroom atmosphere, and truth be told, I'm not that patient of a teacher, as I found out when trying to teach her to write her name.
She did really well, and LOVED it! Her teacher was really good with the kids, but there were a few things that bothered me. I don't think that I will put my other 2 kids in her preschool. I know a lot of people really like Crystal Lawrence, and if you take the Tooele paper, there are usually ads in there.

[Lovechop]

Thanks, Missy. Do you feel comfortable saying what you didn't like about going to Crystal Lawrence? So far I've only received positive feedback on her so I'm curious.

[missypoohsticks]

I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't completely clear. My DD didn't go to Crystal, she went somewhere else, I just threw out the name b/c I know people who have gone to her and really like her.

[Lovechop]

Gotcha! Thanks!

[bookworm]

Hee hee, BS you make me chuckle.

I put all 3 boys through 2 years of a FABULOUS preschool in Grantsville. Partly it was because I wanted them to begin structured socializing (the 3-year olds went for 2 hours twice a week, the 4-year olds 2 hours three times a week) and I, like Missy, didn't feel like I was patient enough to get them started with the letter names and stuff- I don't even like to teach how to tie shoes- I make DH do that!

Anyway, I do think my boys definitely benefited and if we had stayed in Gville, DD would have gone there too. That being said, we moved to Tooele and I couldn't afford Crystal or any others at the time, so DD didn't do PS.

She has done okay, and if your child goes to church, that can help, but I wish she had had at least one year, just because Kindergarten was VERY overwhelming and overstimulating to her at first. She is extremely bright (I know, we all think that about our kids), but her teacher didn't realize that until over half the year was gone- the classroom was chaotically decorated, with many distractions and my DD was frequently distracted. She never fell behind and ended the year having mastered everything she needed to (and then some, in my opinion), but it was a struggle at first- she was so overwhelmed! I think a couple of days per week of PS would have helped her immensely, but now she has adjusted and I think she'll be fine next year. Hopefully!!

[Dia Minha]

I have a completely different view on preschool. I tend to offend when talking about it, because my view is so different.

It frustrates me that kindergarten has become more of a paper work and letter, number, facts, learning place that our kids have to grow up so fast, by going to preschool. Kids learn better when they are taught doing everyday, normal activities. It is so more important for me to have my kids learn about ants while watching the ant hill in the back yard, then learning to read so they can learn about them in a book. Don't get me wrong. I want my kids to learn how to read, I just wish they would have more time to learn how to be great kids, then having to worry about them knowing all base skills before starting kindergarten.

When I was in kindergarten it was the place to learn letters and numbers, and how to listen to our teachers and get along with other children. Now everything is so rushed, parents feel like they have somehow failed if their kids are not "ready" for kindergarten. Kindergarten is for getting ready for school. It should be all about learning how to be a good student.

Just my 2 cents or maybe more like 10.

[Dia Minha]

Oh, I forgot to add: None of my kids have attended a "preschool". I have been very lucky to always have a mommy or two or more, that wanted to "prep" kids for kindergarten that we have been able to get together so our chidlren could have a "preschool" environment and not feel left out, because all their other friends are going to school.

The last time was the best. It was just me and one other mother. We had some simple activities for our boys to do for an hour or less and then they played for and hour or more. Essentially it was like setting up regular playdates. I loved having the opportunity to work with my son and his friend. Having someone else involved, made it easier to stick to a schedule. If I had tried to do it on my own, I probably would have kept putting it off and never got it done.

We did some letter and number stuff and some paper work like that, but we also did a lot of crafts, projects and exploring our world. This year I would like to do it with my 4 year old and concentrate on good literature. There is a website that offers lots of ideas to go along with some really great picture books. I'll have to see if I can find it again and post it. At this age it is far more important to read to your children, then to have them reading to you. At least that's my opinion.

[bookworm]

Originally Posted by Dia Minha

When I was in kindergarten it was the place to learn letters and numbers, and how to listen to our teachers and get along with other children. Now everything is so rushed, parents feel like they have somehow failed if their kids are not "ready" for kindergarten. Kindergarten is for getting ready for school. It should be all about learning how to be a good student.
.

I thought the same thing when my first nephew started- I was surprised that the standard is so much higher now- as far as preparation before Kindergarten goes. It's interesting.

I personally don't feel like 4 hours per week of preschool in any way made my little boys grow up too soon. It was sort of like a structured play group- my kids all LOVED colors and shapes, and that stuff, and that's all they did the first year of PS. The second year was letter names and weather and holidays and all kinds of things, but it was all learned through lots of singing and playing games and coloring, etc. It was a blast and they loved it. It was all the things they were ready to learn anyway- as we were reading books from 2 years old, they all loved pointing out colors and shapes and stuff like that.

On the same note, there are those that would argue that there should be no full-day Kindergarten for the same reason- making kids grow up too soon, etc. And there are those that think they should all go full-day- so they have an advantage the next year. I don't really have an opinion on that, though. I think it's up to the parents for that particular child.

I'm just glad to see my kids are very imaginative, creative, joyful, able to read and really full of life. It's all good.

[5ft Diva]

Kindergarten, Schmindergarten. I think you just roll the dice and hope your kids gets it the year they start. Just kidding. I don't know how I feel about sending kids to preschool vs. keeping them at home. I think that whatever they lack by the time they're at the public school you just supplement at home. They all turn out okay in the end...unless you were wanting to raise the next nobel peace prize winner...then you may want to start saving for your private school fund.

BTW, LC, hope you were satisfied w/ the answers you got since your thread was hijakced several posts ago.

[Stargazer]

I did both the home and away PS. My DS1 skipped kindergarten (it would have been a totally pointless year for him) so I sent him to Crystal Lawrence purely for the socializing. I liked her school. (she is the only one that I have experience with) I always wondered how one PS teacher could handle 20 kids in a class and how they ran it, but my DS didn't really learn anything there (he already knew it) so that wasn't really a concern to me, but he loved it and loved the teachers. I have heard a few complaints about them, but they put through over a 100 kids a year, they must be ok right? They did some fun things and I think that they have it figured out well.

I have always wanted to have my kids "prepared" for kindergarten. That's why we've done PS. There is such a huge range of knowledge in every class and I think my kids have an advantage in that environment if they aren't struggling to learn the basics. Of course they start right at the beginning, so they'll go through it anyway. But if you have a good teacher who can do leveled reading, etc. then your kid will progress. ( feel like I'm babbling. Maybe I should go to sleep). I intentionally didn't teach my kids to read before K so that they would have something to learn. Generally they've taught themselves anyway.

Maybe it's just my kids, I don't know, but I feel that one of the reasons they like school so much is because it's not so hard. They have always been ready for the next thing that comes because they're not still struggling with the last.

Also, my kids just love to learn. I'll find them playing on educational web sites or working on their letters. I don't know if that comes from the lack of struggle because they were prepared or if it's just because they are certainly the brightest kids on the planet

Anyway, I'm thumbs up for preschool. In todays K it certainly does not hurt. My opinion is that 1 year is best or else they are over prepared and then they are bored, get in trouble and set themselves up for the educational struggles that come from being smart and bored. I still try to do the fun hands on learning at home with lots of art and singing and exploring.

[Dia Minha]

I guess the problem is that kids that are "too" prepared for kindergarten do tend to suffer, because they do get bored. I have several sisters who are teachers. They say the biggest problem they have is dealing with parents who think their kids are so smart, when in reality they have just had a head start with preschool. Usually by the third or fourth grade they have all averaged out. And not because the public school system has slowed them down. It is just the way it works. They get tired of fighting with the parents about what they think their child needs. There isn't much a teacher can do with a student that already knows everything and has 20 other kids that are just "average".

My kids are not the "brightest kids on the planet". They are smart. They pick up on things very quickly. I find that if it is too easy for them, they get bored. They want a challenge.

Of course there are always exceptions. My 6 year old that just finished kindergarten needed preschool. He had some speech delayments that I was concerned about. I didn't want to fork out the major bucks that the preschool teachers wanted. I would rather spend my money on dance and soccer, because I believe that is where they learn real life skills anyway. I tried to qualify him for some help through the state, because of his speech problem, but couldn't convince them he had one. The funny thing is, (sorry most of you have probably heard this story) they said since he could say all his sounds, they couldn't help him. Yet, the first questions they asked him, that required more than a one word answer, they didn't know what he said. Neither did I when they asked me to translate. Still they refused to help him. When he went in for his kindergarten placement test he failed. Guess why? Yep, because he wouldn't talk. It wasn't until then I realized his speach problem was physcological and not physical. That is why I wanted him in all day kindergarten. He wouldn't have needed all day kindergarten if the state would have been willing to help me out the year before. One month into kindergarten his teacher was thinking she had placed him in the wrong group. She retested him and sure enough he aced it. If he would have done that for the first exam thy wouldn't have even let him in all day.

It is a personal decision. A parent has to decide what is best for their own child, because they know best. I'm not saying that nobody should put their kids in preschool. I'm just saying that I wish I could take my kids back 30 years and do it the old fashion way. Back in the days, when we weren't so concerned about how smart our children are, but how well they function in society. How well they get along with others. When handing in homework on time was more important then getting it done the fastest and getting the highest grade. When children were taught the consequences of forgetting their lunch or homework, because parents refused to bail them out each time they forgot. When parents let children do their own homework, their own projects, and gave them the responsibility for getting in done and handing it in. I know I am guilty of hovering, making sure they finish, offering unwanted suggestions, questioning if what they have done is good enough. I ask my mom why she never did this to me. She just says it's because their wasn't as much pessure on her to have the smartest, brightest, top of the class kids. It seems so much like a contest now. I wish I could get out of the race.

Anyway, now I'm rambling. Just had to get out the thoughts. Maybe this would make more sense has a blog. Sorry for hi-jacking Lovechop.

[Stargazer]

Well said Dia. Sometimes I wonder why I worry. I'm certainly not pushing for Yale here. I think for me the PS decision was based on two things. One is being prepared for K because so many kids now do PS. The other is that all of my kids were headed in that direction on their own anyway and it was natural to start pursuing more formal learning. I have also found that the younger three have been more inclined to the formal thing, probably from the example of the older ones going off to school. My kids have always started asking how to spell, rhyming, sounding out words on their own. The other day they were sorting through foam letters and numbers and gluing their phone number on a paper. Preschool just seemed very natural to do for them. My older sister put one of her daughters in preschool purely for the socialization. She wouldn't leave her mommy and mommy was going crazy. I think that's a good reason too, to let them know that the world out there is ok.

I'm with Dia in wishing for more "old fashioned" values. Then again, that's not really the path that I pursue. I figure if my kids "got it" then they should use it to the best of their ability. In my opinion for them that means that their best is usually better than what is expected and doing extra then what is required. I think that is bad grammar. The downside of the whole competition, I have to be awesome and #1 thing is the stress. My DD1 is a major stressball and has been for several years. It's hard to find a middle ground with her because she is capable of so much and yet can't understand that sometimes it's ok to let go and do "good enough"

By the way, considering all of this educational hoopla, how many of you have used 6th grade math much in your life? I find myself often having to go over the lessons to correct the homework. For me those aren't the lessons that have been of the most use in my life.

[5ft Diva]

Having taught 6th grade math this year I can tell you that we use it all the time. DS1 definitely has the grades to show he gets the math, but I really hope it connected w/ him as it's a foundation for his jr. high/high school experience.

I ask my mom why she never did this to me. She just says it's because their wasn't as much pessure on her to have the smartest, brightest, top of the class kids. It seems so much like a contest now. I wish I could get out of the race.

I can't help but think that we have to check up on our kids these days because no one else is. I'm finding that my children's teachers are so busy making sure that they're teaching the material that they don't have enough time to help them catch on if they are falling behind. It's so important for the parent to know if their child is doing well in school.

[Dia Minha]

I never thought of it that way Diva. You make a good point.

[Big_Sissy]

Originally Posted by 5ft Diva

I can't help but think that we have to check up on our kids these days because no one else is. I'm finding that my children's teachers are so busy making sure that they're teaching the material that they don't have enough time to help them catch on if they are falling behind. It's so important for the parent to know if their child is doing well in school.

I think you hit the nail on the head. A lot of attention is given on getting them through the material so we can receive "government $$" because they are on the course that the feds in Washington believe they should be on...

I'm stopping now because I'm not so sure I'm going to remain calm.