CH3 - The Greatest Revelation: Persuasion

[Erudite]

So the first attribute is persuasion. Post here if you have any good thoughts on applying persuasion as defined by Dr. Lund.

My first thought, again, is to take a look at 1 Nephi 8:37-38, where Lehi is talking to Laman and Lemuel. He is using persuasion.

In thinking of "persuasion", I almost think we define it today as "whining" or "begging" or "giving all the facts on one side of the issue". I loved that he defined it as "thoroughly advise". This implies not only that we remain in emotional control (ie NOT whining) but that we also give the whole picture and the reasons why one side of the picture might be better for us. This is NOT to say we are objective (if there is such a thing), but that we are knowledgable about an issue enough that we have made an educated choice and are now trying to educate someone else on our choice. I also think that in the "thoroughly advise" position, we can be open to changing our opinions when we are presented with more facts, because we haven't gotten ourselves emotionally wrapped up in whatever it is.

I also loved the additional definition of "lovingly and knowledgably instruct". This implies that we have the best good of the person in mind (love) and that we have some experience or reason for thinking and acting as we do, so that we can ably instruct.

I know my parenting has changed in considering these ideas, because I don't approach it from the "because I said so" position anymore. I approach my kids as people who need to be "lovingly and knowledgably" instructed and so I attempt to help them understand the whole picture of what I'm asking them to do from eating their peas (for my 4 year old) to completing their homework (for my 5th grader) to reading their scriptures in family scripture study. Practicing these skills on our kids is a great way for me to get good at them since I get a LOT of practice.

Anyway, those are my initial thoughts on persuasion. I'd love to hear yours!

[Erudite]

Oh I forgot! I have one more addition to persuasion. As I was meditating on this idea, the words "I know it will bless you" came into my mind. I realized that these are the words we need to consider as we try to persuade. Those words could be used as a manipulation, so they need to be used very carefully after considering the best good of the "persuadee". We need to have an understanding of how the persuadee will be blessed in order to help them understand whatever. This takes the emphasis off us and puts it on the persuadee and their best good. Thus we have thought through how they will be blessed by taking the action. Then we TOTALLY need the next attribute "long-suffering" in order to do the persuasion at the time that is right for the persuadee.

Hope that makes sense!

[5ft Diva]

Yes, makes sense.

My thoughts are pretty simple. My first thought is that persuading requires one to respect agency. We all know that the gospel respects this concept anyway, but one really has to master the ability to allow someone their agency in order to meet the definition of persuade. There is no forcing, there is no controlling, there is no deciding for another person what is best for them. It's about allowing someone else to have the ability to choose while knowledgeably and lovingly instructing them to choose something that would be for their highest good (not yours). My other thought is that in order to persuade someone thoroughly, lovingly and knowledgeably one has to have this information themselves. It seems to me that it would be helpful to have a testimony of the concepts you're teaching about. I don't think that being a hypocrite is being a loving person - it seems selfish. How can you persuade someone if you aren't living those principles yourself. Just some thoughts.

[Joanie]

I had a negative experience of having been on the receiving end of persuasion.
I disagreed with a person on how to handle a situation. We discussed it quite thoroughly and the other person gave me what they felt were very compelling reasons for doing it their way. I still disagreed and decided to do it my way. The other person had used persuasion and here was the test. They did not let me do it my way. It was not really my choice (to them).
In using persuasion we must be careful that they really do have a choice. If your child doesn't want to get dressed they don't have that choice. If they don't want to go to school, they don't have that choice either. Sometimes as parents, we tell our children that "that isn't on the menu". We do try to give them options with things that really are "on the menu" and let them make choices. We may try to influence them to wear matching clothes but that (if you're okay with it) is something they really can choose.
I try to step back before I get into it emotionally and ask if I really am okay with them making a choice different than what I want for them. If not I remind myself that they are people who deserve to have choices. My kids are older so this happens much more often now.

[Erudite]

In discussing this similar topic in the "agency" thread, TR said what he posted about letting children make the choices when they understand the consequences of the choice. I thought that was a good measuring stick because it brings us back to training the child so that we can trust he/she is on the path when a choice comes up. Children need to understand what will take them off the path, and sometimes, I think, children need to step off in order to see that its better to be on.

My other thought about this topic is that persuasion isn't something to be done for an immediate problem. Get that...is NOT for an immediate problem. Persuasion should be done over time and in many ways. The stripling warrior mothers didn't bear their testimonies to their sons for the first time as the sons walked out the door to war. It was done over a lifetime. "thoroughly advise" over a lifetime. When we have established this as our MO, immediate problems are very much easier to deal with. We are ALWAYS persuading. It is the WHAT we should be doing, where long-suffering (and "betimes")is the WHEN, and gentleness, meekness, kindness, and love unfeigned are the HOW.

Wow...I just reread what I wrote. What a powerful concept. It makes learning that "persuasion" thing in a Christlike way incredibly important.

[Joanie]

I was just looking through the scriptures to find times when it mentioned persuasion and I was struck by the fact that the Spirit persuades. When we have the Spirit we are more likely to persuade.

Also, I really like the way you categorized those 9 ways. Very insightful!

[5ft Diva]

Joanie, something tells me that your negative experience w/ persuasion really wasn't persuasion at all. If you have been persuaded, you should never walk away feeling you were forced to do something.

[Joanie]

Yea, of course, you're right.
I guess I mentioned that because that person thought that if they used persuasion I would immediately see their way was right and jump on board. I'm sure that this won't be a problem for any of us since we've also coupled our study of persuasion with long-suffering.

[5ft Diva]

I agree! ...and good thing we're here for each other during that long suffering part....there will be a lot of times I'll need a reality check and I know you guys will be the one to help me out with that.

Oh, if persuasion was as simple as "hop on board w/ me because I think I'm right." The thing about persuasion is it's not about what is right and what's wrong, it's not about what's black and what's white. It's about making the right choice for you. I don't think anyone would come near me w/ a ten foot pole if I took the approach that I'm right and they're wrong. I don't know your situation, Joanie, but from my own experience, this is one of the ways people have tried to "persuade me". It never works to pin me in a corner.

[Joanie]

I'm the same (about not liking to be put in a corner).
I suppose most people are.

[Erudite]

Originally Posted by Joanie

Yea, of course, you're right.
I guess I mentioned that because that person thought that if they used persuasion I would immediately see their way was right and jump on board. I'm sure that this won't be a problem for any of us since we've also coupled our study of persuasion with long-suffering.

You know...5D is right. This isn't persuasion as Christ is defining it. Dr. Lund defines the world counterpart as compulsion, force, coercion, nagging and intimidation and it sounds like any one of those ideas might have been being done in this scenario.

As we use persuasion we need to remember to look at all sides and consider all sides. You needed to consider hers and she needed to consider yours. I wonder if there would have been a happy medium where both ideas combine to make a greater idea.

But this is hard. I just recently had to use persuasion on myself when something didn't quite go the way I wanted it to. I went through all the details from the other person's perspective and came to the conclusion that she'd acted appropriately given the situation. While I still wished it had gone my way, I saw the wisdom in the way it did go. It was one of those "trust me" moments from God that is good practice for life.

I guess I bring this up to remind myself that giving/getting all the details I can in a situation is part of persuasion and being as objective as possible is the way to find the best path for everyone. Our Heavenly Father wants us to learn this skill, because that is what He does.