Diet Discussions

[Erudite]

Hey...Dia brought some cool new stuff to us and I wanted to move it out of the ROAR forum for discussion. Hope that's ok. Here's her post.

Originally Posted by Dia Minha

Yeah Erudite. I can hear you ROARing.

I'm still working on my protein. I think I went about it wrong last week. Because I just don't like meat I tried getting all my extra protein in with protein bars and this new Special K protein water. Which actually is really good. Only 30 calories and 5g of fiber along with 5g of protein. Like my brother says is better than a candy bar. I didn't go down an the scale though, I went up. So this week I am concentrating on getting in more whole foods, eggs, tuna, chicken, and because I seem to be a little low on iron a little bit more lean red meat.

My WW meeting last night was all about myths of excercise and I learned a lot. One thing that astonished me was that muscle does not burn fat. Muscle burns carbohydrates. The liver burns fat. So I need to do a little research on how the liver works and what I need to do to help it burn the fat more effeciently.

Another thing I learned is that resistance training does not build muscle. Essentially what it does is keep you from loosing muscle while you are loosing weight. With every pound lost approxiametely 30% is muscle. Resistance training prevents this loss. Thus, your weight loss might not be as much, but your percentage of body fat will go down faster, which is better for us anyway. It kind of helped explain why I have plateaued the last five weeks. It can take up to eight weeks to really see a difference so that gives me three more weeks, before I will learn if it is something else.

Anyway, today I am roaring because I thought I didn't have anything more to learn about healthy eating and last night I discovered there is so much more to learn. So now I have something new to research and I can't wait to add more knowledge on my favorite subject.

Dia

K, Dia...first on the protein. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my calorie tracker because it tracks everything for me. At some point early each day, I sit down and plan out my diet for the day and watch the levels. I can adjust when I'm not getting enough in one area, but too much in another. For example...we're planning on a picnic with the kids for dinner. So that means sandwiches, etc. I had planned on 3 slices of ham, but when I saw how much sodium, I cut it back to 1 slice of ham and a slice of swiss cheese. That cut back the sodium but upped the protein and fat. Fat was ok, I was a little low there anyway. I also saw that my carbs were too high so I looked those over and swapped out a non-fat yogurt for non-fat cottage cheese. This lowered my carbs, upped my protein, and dropped my calories a little. It's still a good amount of food, but a whole lot smarter. Anyway, I know you looked at the tool, so I thought I'd share my success with it.

My protein sources today are dairy and a little bit of meat...3 oz chicken for lunch and that ham for dinner. Is that "sparingly", do you think? I'm actually looking into vegetarian eating, but I can't quite go all the way yet.

On reistance training...how much then is recommended to offset cardio work? I'm running 3 days a week and doing The FIRM or Yoga on the alternate days. It's A LOT of cardio...more than I realized till I started tracking. Do I need to up my resistance training do you think?

Thanks for your help!
E

[5ft Diva]

Remind me of this site you guys are looking on that helps you track all of this stuff? I'm pregnant so I can't "lose weight" on it but I didn't know you could track what you were eating and whatnot.

[Dia Minha]

Erudite, I tried the tracker. However, learning stuff like that does not come easy to me. I need a couple of hours to sit down and work with it before actually being able to use it. Just five or ten minutes here and there doesn't work, because I forget what I learned before I try it again. (Thus, I still can't post pictures, even though Fubeca has showed me three times.) It sounds really cool though. I'm going to have to make time to figure it out.

Vegetarian really isn't that hard, if your not trying to do full fledge no animal products. You can get all the protein you need through whole grains, dairy, eggs, legumes and nuts and seeds. Any recipe that calls for meat you can substitue beans, either half or all. You can add legumes, nuts and/or seeds to salads and soups. The other day I toasted some left over homemade veggie pizza and topped it with a scrambled egg. Yeah I know weird, but it was yummy.

I have no idea about how much resistance to do. I do cardio everyday and resistance on Mon, Wed, Fri. One thing we talked about last night was that you can add resistance to your cardio, by walking on the treadmill at in incline, or adding ankle and wrist weights. It can even be as simple as contracting the muscle while you walk. I do a walking areobics and I had resistance by bending my kness and squating a bit, which activates the thighs and buttock muscles more. Hope that makes since.

I had just a couple of minutes for research this morning and discovered two things about liver function. Fiber and aloe vera gel promotes healthy liver function. Aloe vera gel is one of those things that does so much for our body, including anti-inflammatory and digestion. I have some aloe vera juice in the fridge right now for my son, so I'm going to add some to my smoothie tomorrow morning. I also know you can get straight aloe vera gel in capsule form. I hate taking pills though, so I think I'll stick with the juice. The article I read said depending on how fatty your liver is it could take 3-12 months to show improvement, but it will come.

Hope you can find something in here that helps. Maybe Finnican can help us out with the amount of cardio and resistance we need to remain balanced in our efforts.

Dia

[Dia Minha]

Diva, this is the website Erudite was talking about. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Dia

[Erudite]

Its sparkpeople.com

And it is amazing!!!!!!!!!! 10 exclamation points amazing. There are articles on pregnancy and a message board team for those who are pregnant. When you log on, you'll just want to tell it that you're in maintenance mode so it won't recommend dropping your calories. You can set it to track a bunch of different nutrients, including iron, if that is a concern for you. Then you just have to use it to log in the food and it does all the tracking for you. Call me if you want me to walk you through it. Dia, you can call me too if you want to.

E

[5ft Diva]

Thanks! I'm excited to give this a try. E, yesterday you said that you spent a lot of time on this website. Do you foresee that happening to anyone who uses this website or is this something just for you? I'm just wondering if there's something I need to do to cut down my time or need to avoid. Hope this makes sense.

[Erudite]

If I would just on and do my food tracking, I could be on and off in a few minutes a day. It would take a little more time though to do the analysis and planning that I'm doing so that I can stay within my ranges. I guess I could even print everything out and spend just a few minutes a week. I use the site for a lot more though. I track my exercise which tracks my calories burned. They also have a huge database of articles you can read to become more knowledgeable...I need to look up "liver"! And I participate in several of the message boards to support people and receive support. It all adds up...but that's my choice and not the systems.

E

[happy scrapper]

I don't usually chime in on topics like this. But here I am. I think weight loss is so individual. Something that works for one may not be effective at all for another. That's why there is so much conflicting information out there. However there are things that are the same for all of us. In general our muscles do burn sugar (carb). ALL of our cells burn glucose. However we don't store much glucose in or near our cells, that is what we use fat for. Our bodies can break down fat into energy + CO2 & H2O. We just need O2, this is why it is called aerobic metabolism. So when a particular cells energy needs increase (muscular or otherwise) our bodies divert O2 to the area and the cells start to "burn fat" by converting stored fats into sugar for cellular consumption. So to burn fat we need to increase the energy needs of our cells. That is why people say that you have to work out for ten minutes (I think it is shorter than that.) before we start burning fat. We have to deplete our sugar stores to trigger our cells to start converting fat to glucose. Muscle is more dense that fat and therefore weighs more. Fat cells need little energy, muscle cells are big energy consumers. Therefore, building more muscle ups our metabolism - even at rest.

Dia, I am not sure why they told you the liver in particular burns fat. The liver helps BUILD triglycerides (the form of fat our bodies store) from the fats and carbs that we eat. Here is part of what wikipedia says about the liver. (I would suggest reading the whole article. Go to [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and type in liver to the search.)

"The liver is an organ present in vertebrates and some other animals. It plays a major role in metabolism and has a number of functions in the body, including glycogen storage, decomposition of red blood cells, plasma protein synthesis, and detoxification. This organ also is the largest gland in the human body. It lies below the diaphragm in the thoracic region of the abdomen.[2] It produces bile, an alkaline compound which aids in digestion, via the emulsification of lipids. It also performs and regulates a wide variety of high-volume biochemical reactions requiring specialized tissues."

So basically it is a site for sugar storage, and produces "chemicals" to help our bodies break down foods including bile that emulsifies fats (helps fat to be carried in our bloodstream).

Here are my beliefs on eating. We should eat foods closest to their natural form. The "wholer" the better. When I was 20 I turned vegan. I didn't do it to save the animals but to be healthy. And it was the absolute healthiest time of my life. But it came at a price. Food preparation took a large portion of my day. I only ate bread that I made with freshly grinded wheat, water and yeast, no salt no sweetener. If you ate it today you would probably spit it out. But I had conditioned myself not to eat sugar or salt. My extra weight melted off, but all I ate was fruits, vegetables and whole grains. No meats or animal products of any kind and no processed foods (even flour). I went back to my "regular" ways of eating because I started to think about having children and raising a family. Children (& preg women) need more fats and protiens that a grown adult. Now I just try to make "healthy" choices. My kids eat fruits or vegetables. We do have treats but not every day. At my house trans fat is treated like poison. Trans fats are not found anywhere in nature. It is not clear what happens to trans fats when we ingest them but scientist are pretty sure they are not broken down because our bodies probably do not have the proper enzymes to break down these unnatural chemical bonds. (I used to not care very much about trans fat until I took organic chemistry and found out exactly what they were!) I try to stay away from preservatives as much as I can. My family has gone virtually fast food free. We used to eat off the dollar menus at least once a week. And it was that Supersize Me movie that changed me. Even my husband doesn't frequent the drive thru any more which shocked me. Maybe it's because I told him if he was going to continue going to fast food places I'd make him watch the movie! We do subway now and again and pick specific things off the Wendy's menu that our kids can choose from but we do everything we can to avoid them. I think we have only been 5 or 6 times since whenever that movie came out.

To me weight loss has a huge psychological componant. If I "diet" I can do nothing but focus and think about food. So I don't diet anymore and it has changed my outlook on food. There are things I choose not to eat. Doughnuts and fries for example are the worst things you could possibly put in your mouth. But once or twice a year I indulge. I try to plan on eating certain healthy things thru the day. Like I buy fruits and vegetables and eat them as my snacks instead of chips and cookies. And when I do but things like that I buy lower fat (trans fat free) varieties. I like the idea of the food tracker, but for me I think it would take a lot of time. (And turn my focus right to food. Yes, I am just a little obsessive/compulsive.) And by the way E, have you tried Light & Fit yogurt by Dannon? There are only 11 carbs/8 oz serving. It does taste a little different but in a good way. I can't even stomach the full sugar kind anymore. Right before I stopped my vegan ways I did a little experiment and started tracking exactly how many calories went in. The idea was to track calories and then reduce them by 250 a week. Even eating only healthy things I gained 10 lbs in a month! So when I want to lose weight I ramp up the exercise and just let my body have what it wants to eat. When I am working out all the time I crave things that are healthy. Obviously to lose weight cardio is necessary. I am also a FIRM believer. E, I believe that if you are using the weights with your videos you are doing plenty of resistance exercises. That is one of the reasons I love the FIRM, they build resistance right into their program. I always feel so empowered after doing their programs! I also checked out sparkpeople and will absolutely use it when I am done with school and have the time!!

Also don't forget to drink lots of water. The 64 oz guideline is for average people at rest. When you workout your water needs increase!

[happy scrapper]

I was going through my email and wanted to add this link: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. It talks about a way to burn more fat and has a link to an article that says do your cardio before your weights. Keep up the hard work gals, you really are inspiring!

[Dia Minha]

I have a lot I want to say, but I'm just going to start with the paragraph you directed at me.

When my weight watchers leader told me that the liver processes fat, she was telling me the truth. The liver does process fat. Maybe she or I am not explaining right, because we don't know all the correct scientific terms. What I am saying may be very simplified, but if your liver is not working properly, because it is intoxicated with chemicals found in processed foods, it can not properly function. Thus the liver needs to be detoxified in order to eliminate those bad chemicals and be able to handle processing the bodies stored fat.

You say yourself "So basically it is a site for sugar storage, and produces "chemicals" to help our bodies break down foods including bile that emulsifies fats (helps fat to be carried in our bloodstream)." I'm sorry, but isn't this in layman terms saying the liver processes fat? Or at least it produces chemicals that process the fat? If your liver is not functioning properly and not producing the correct levels of "chemicals" to "help fat to be carried in our bloodstream" than your body is unable to process or use up that stored fat.

Anyway, my leader had it right, because she was able to point me in the right direction and I now know what I need to do to push my weight loss up. Everything I read says that once you have detoxed the liver the weight will come off easily with moderate excercise and a healthy diet. Where as right now I am doing more than enough excercise and following a healthy diet and the weight is not coming off. And I'm not using the word diet, defined as a means to loose weight, but as the food I eat, or a lifestyle I am committed to for the rest of my life. If it was just a matter of working out for more than ten minutes to burn off the ready energy and than burn stored fat, I would have had it done a long time ago. I have been doing a regement of 4-5 days of interval training (25 mins of 3 mins walking two min running) and with warm up, level off and cool down is 50 mins toal cardio. Then depending on which routine I am on I do 20-40 minutes of resistance using body weight and hand weights and I do that three days a week. Yes, the body needs to break down the stored fat, in order to loose weight, and if my liver is not functioning properly than my body can not do this correctly.

Again I'm sorry for not using the correct terminology, but bare with me here I'm not a scientist.

The other thing we discussed at my meeting the other night is that a pound is a pound. Muscle does not "weigh more than fat". A pound of feathers does not weigh any more than a pound of lead. I'm sure the phrase, "muscle weighs more than fat" was derieved from the idea that a certian volume of muscle does weigh more than the same volume of fat, but what it all comes down to is a pound of fat will weigh the same on any scale as a pound of muscle. Muscle is more dense than fat, but it does not weigh more.

If you are looking for the healthiest option when it comes to yogurt, your best bet is to buy plain, unflavored yogurt and mix in some fresh or frozen fruit. Not only is there more protein in plain yogurt there is also no artifical or natural sweetner (aspartame or sugar) added. Just the natural sugars in the fruit itself.

HS, I totally agree with your idea of eating whole foods. The food plan I am following right now is based on that exact principle. I love it, because I feel good while I'm on it. I really should be loosing the extra weight, like you described, but I'm not. Due to some other symptoms I really believe that my liver is not functioning properly. I should be able to work on this by following a simple 100% whole foods diet (fruits, vegetables, and a few choice grains) for ten days along with a continued effort, including a dose of aloe vera every day, which can help clear out any toxins (like sugar, because I don't expect myself to live completely sugar free for the rest of my life), I might eat from then on.

For me it really helps if I write down everything I eat, because than I hold myself accountable for everything that goes into my mouth. It is really easy to say, "Oh, I'll just have a taste," and before I know it I have eaten a whole cookie and than the box of cookies and then get down to the end of the week a gained a pound, and it was just a taste. But if I hold myself accountable and write down that cookie, than it usually stops there. Then at the end of the week, if I don't have a loss, I am able to go back over my journal and see all my little tastes, that add up, and be held accountable for each of them, learn and move on. Hopefully with a goal to get through the next week with less "tastes".

Yes, water, water, water. Water is very important, especially while trying to detox your liver. The liver can and will eventualy rid itself of the toxins, but your body can not flush them out without the proper amount of H2O.

Dia

[Dia Minha]

HS, I just glanced over that last article you posted and that is just what my workout video does. There is what the instructor calls a "water break" in the middle of the 50 minutes. It usually ends up being a bathroom break for me so I break for about ten minutes. Is that enough? Also with the interval training, my heart rate slows and then is pumped back up again several times during the session to help burn more calories. I love it. I don't think I could ever go back to just walking.

Dia

[happy scrapper]

Dia,

I didn't mean to say that you didn't understand or weren't using correct terminology, I just wanted to share some of the things I've learned over the years. I know the WW people are knowledgeable and I didn't mean to infer that she was lying to you or didn't know what she was talking about. I was just trying to say that the liver processes fats on the way into our body and that our cells themselves are the actual fat burners. I think that a 10 day detox would be good for any of us. In fact I have been trying to get my husband to do one to no avail! He is not willing to give up his fav foods for any length of time and thinks that a good dinner can come directly from the freezer to the microwave to the table! (Which is why I desperately try to get the grocery shopping done before he decides to "help!") I also tried to get him to look into what you had said you were doing with your son's anti-inflamatory diet. Since hives and swelling are the bodies inflamatory responses I figured it wouldn't hurt him to try, but he just wouldn't part with the ice cream! Anyway I am interested to hear how the liver cleanse goes for you! (Is the aloe vera injested? Just curious.)

The way I understand the exercise break is this: When we start to exercise we increase our body's energy needs. The muscles send out the signal that they need fat from our storage sites. The body transports it through the bloodstream. When we take a break the body takes awhile (about 20 mins.) to send the signal to stop recruiting more energy. This leaves fat molecules free floating in our blood. It can then be sent back and restored or if we begin working out again it is right there ready for our muscles to burn. This time when our muscles start to send there signal we can burn off the fat that is hanging out from the last time while we are "waiting" for the next wave to be brought in from the storage sites. It's kind of along the same lines as, I'm sure you've heard, it takes the stomach up to 20 mins to tell our brain that it is full. So yes, a 10 min break would definately be good.

You also made mention to interval training. This is when we really push and get our hr going and then slow it down, then push again and slow again, etc. I know this is one of the most effective tools to weight loss, but honestly I have forgotten exactly why. If you want I can look up the ins & outs of why it works. But I do know that it does burn more calories than just plain cardio.

I know you know what you are doing. You have more nutrition knowledge that most people. I don't know why you aren't getting all the results you want because it sounds like you are working really, really hard! Keep up the work and I know that you will get that payoff in the end. Maybe try to focus on how good all this hard work makes you feel and don't beat yourself up over small set backs. Positive thinking can work miracles!!

[Erudite]

Interesting stuff, you guys! Thanks for sharing. I'm learning a lot and I appreciate that.

ME TOO, Dia...is about all I can say. My weigh-in yesterday was less than satisfactory. As hard as I worked the last week, it ought to show something! But you keep me hopeful with the longer timeframes you've given...10 day detox and a couple of weeks for something else...I can't remember what now. I feel really good and that counts for something, but I want to start seeing it come off...you know what I mean. I'll keep plugging away. I do have some other goals besides weight loss and that keeps me going too. I'm in week 5 of the couch to 5K training program and I want to get to week 9 and hold it there until the 5Ks start in the Spring. That's a good goal to be working toward.

HS...I'm also working on a 10 workout challenge with the FIRM. I've got 4 under my belt now. You know...the one where they guarantee measureable results in just 10 workouts.

And I'm working on an sugar free challenge (I'm at 6 days now!!) and a VERY HEALTHY lifestyle challenge (it's a sparkpeople thing). Of course at the bottom of all this is the hope that it will drop the inches off my middle regions.

Anyway, thanks for these discussions! They're helping me to think about things harder!

[Dia Minha]

Happy, I'm sorry if you thought I was saying that I thought you were saying that my WW leader had lied. I felt misunderstood, but I didn't think you were saying she lied. I have a tendency to over simplify and by doing so can be misunderstood. I just wanted to explain where I was coming from.

Yes the aloe vera is ingested. You can get it in capsule form or I just get aloe vera juice from the supplement aisle at Wal-mart. There are many, many benefits, that I can't even begin to explain, but anti-inflammatory, aid in digesting food allergens, and detoxing are just a few.

I'm not sure I can pull off a detox. I wish I could. However, I want to make sure I am in it 100%, no cheating aloud, before I give it a go. Right now I'm going to cut back on all the non-detox foods and increase my detox foods and hopefully with the aloe vera juice be able to see enough benefit that I will be willing to put in the effort for the whole ten day detox.

Thanks for the encouragement. I really need it. I know my biggest problem is the emotional eating and when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter if what I am eating when I am not hungry, if I'm eat too much the weight isn't going to come off. It only takes one episode in a week, to ruin all my hard work. I'm working on it though, and I'll get there. It just seems like I should be able to make one or two mistakes a week and still pull off a loss and maybe that just isn't the case with me. Having the knowledge just doesn't cut it, I have to use it. That is why I love WW so much, because they have help in all aspects of loosing weight, not just the "diet" part.

Thanks for the information on the excercising. It makes so much sense. Now if I just had more hours to dedicate to excercise I could take more breaks and boost it even more.

Wow, go Erudite. Six days sugar free. That is amazing. Your liver will thank you for it and get rid of some more of that stored fat, I just know it.

The something else, you mentioned, is the aloe vera juice. It should help me detox even though I'm not committing to a full detox diet. Little baby steps.

[happy scrapper]

I have never heard of this aloe vera thing before! I am going to have to try it. It sounds wonderful for my husband but then again so did the omega-3 I bought him last month & he hasn't taken 1! At least I am getting the benefits. Have you taken the aloe before? How do you like it? I am excited to try it. Thanks for sharing!

[Dia Minha]

I have given it to my son before, but I just recently started (last Friday). The first couple of times I put it in my smoothie, but it kind of tainted it and I found myself not enjoy my smoothie, because of it. This morning I just drank it straight. There is really no taste if you just gulp it down. However, there is a slight aftertaste that is a little horrid. I think I'll just have my smoothie ready, gulp down the aloe vera and then drink some smoothie and I'll be ok.

If your husband has a hard time with supplements in pill form, (like I do) most can be bought in a liquid and can be added to the foods and drinks he already eats. I would put my sons aloe vera in his juice. Purple grape works the best, because it has the strongest flavor.

I wish I could find the one website I was looking at on Saturday. It was generic information about the benefits of aloe vera, without trying to sale it to you. I'm always a little weary about the websites information if they are trying to get you to buy their product. I'll keep looking for it and post a link.

Dia

[Dia Minha]

Here is a really good easy to read article on how the liver works to burn fat and how aloe vera helps. It wasn't the one I was looking for, but has all the same basic information. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]