Abortion

[Dia Minha]

I really just need to take a few moments to express my point of view on this topic. I know how easy it is to say that I am against abortion no matter what, even in rape and incest cases or when the mothers life is in danger. However, I think before abortion is outlawed all together the word needs to be redefined.

According to my medical charts I had an abortion in July of 2007. What my charts do not say is that my baby was already dead. Now my physical life was not endangered. I could have carried my dead baby around for a couple of weeks even a month and no harm would have come to me. Of course I could have gone into labor on my own. It would have been fast and hard and I could have hemorrhaged or something else. But the thing that touches me the most, is if I would have waited by baby's body would have deteriorated and I would have not have the pleasure of holding his perfect little body.

I have had a sister-in-law whose life has been in danger three times due to atopic pregnancies. This is when the embryo attaches to the fallopian tube instead of in the uterus. Her medical charts list abortion three times. The thing is, she waited so long twice, both her fallopian tubes were destroyed. The baby would have died anyway and she could have died too. This is what it means to legalize abortions when the mother’s life is endangered.

It just isn't as simple as it sounds on paper. There are a lot of situations that demand either leniency or a new definition of abortion. Yes, I am against aborting a baby for the simple reason that the mother does not want to be pregnant. The reality is she should have thought about that before making the choices that got her there. Of course a women who is impregnated in a rape situation had no choice. So that adds a whole new dynamic that makes this a very complicated decision on law makers. How would it be to live a life knowing you were conceived in such a way? How would it be to live nine months being reminded every moment of the incident? I don’t know. I just thank my Heavenly Father that I don’t, but can I make that decision for someone else? Definitely not!

Anyway, I just really had to get that all out. It has been eating me up inside.

[bookworm]

Wow, Dia! Thank you for sharing that well thought out information. I hadn't realized that when a miscarried fetus is taken it is considered abortion. Same with the doomed embryo attached to the fallopian tubes. Interesting and very educational, I'm very glad you wrote this.

I agree, the legislation probably needs to be more detailed and specific. It's a tough thing to go through, I'm sure, and to have the choice removed in a situation like yours or your sister-in-law's would be completely wrong.

Wow...

[Dia Minha]

Your welcome BW.

I hate getting the insurance information on Levi, because the word abortion is all over it. However, it gets even more confusing, because the hospital has me down for an induction. So every time they would call they would congratulate me on my new baby. Not only that, they over charged me, because for some reason they say all inductions are standard and automatically charged us for a whole bunch of stuff we didn't have. I don't how many times I had to tell the person on the phone that my baby had died and I did not have a standard induction. We fought it for months. We never did get it all straighten out and ended up paying more than we should have. The insurance did too. All together the hospital got paid over $1,000 more than they should have. And that was after they were "so nice" and only charged me half for the pitocin I never had.

I really think somebody just needs to redefine abortion and give these other procedures a new name and make it so everyone, hospitals, insurance companies, government and families can all use the same phrases. I would never say I had an abortion, because to me I didn't. I say I was induced and delivered a stillborn. But even then the doctors chart say missed misscarriage, because it is counted as a misscarriage until the 20th week and I delivered at 18. But he didn't die of natural causes, he died due to an umbilical incident, which means he was strangled by his umbilical cord. But don't try to convince our accidental insurance of that. They wouldn't pay for his death, because he died before the 20th week, even though his death was an accident. Because the doctor has to call it a missed abortion, they didn't have to pay. If I understand right, if I would have delivered a baby after 20 weeks that had died due to an umbilical cord accident they would have paid.

Anyway, like I said all very confusing indeed.

[bookworm]

Well, that is just terrible. Like salt on the wound. I'm sorry you had to go through that on top of your personal grief, Dia. Yuck. I'd say a system overhaul is long overdue. I agree- new terminology would probably help a lot! Especially since they have that 20 week deadline going on!

[natickgirl]

I've been struggling with the abortion issue, too, but for different reasons. I am very very anti-abortion!!! (In the "I don't want to be pregnant" or "this is inconvenient & embarrassing" sense, not the medically necessary situation like yours or your SIL's.) However, I also strongly believe in the right for people to make their own choices & not be forced by my morals, except for when it interferes with the rights of others (murder, for example). Is it possible to be pro-life and pro-choice at the same time?

I feel for you in your struggles with insurance companies, Dr.s and hospitals. Hospitals & insurance companies just rubber stamp everything rather than taking individual situations into consideration. Nothing like raking you over the coals when you've already suffered a devastating loss.

[PhillyGirl]

I have had a hard time with this subject as well. If you look up what pro-life means it means no abortion no matter the reason. I too disagree with abortion as a birth control method (they wished they weren't pregnant so they abort). But there are those other reasons that may need to result in an abortion. Where is the in between ground between pro-life and pro-choice. It seems that is all or nothing. There is some gray area in this matter.

[Erudite]

I guess we've all thought about this more than we realized. I thought there was some different terminology, but it almost sounds like the insurance companies have their own definitions for when life occurs...apparently not till after the 20th week, when life might just possibly make it outside the womb. Nice of them to decide that for the rest of us, huh?

The word "abortion" actually means "untimely birth; miscarriage; expulsion or removal of the human fetus; any fruit or product in a state of arrested development". So by the definition, the word applies to your situation, Dia, better than most. But the word has taken on specific connotations in today's world, in that we understand it to mean that there has been a choice made...generally a "cosmetic" choice. So here are some possible new terms for us:

Elective abortion - where the woman chooses to end the pregnancy for personal reasons unrelated to the health of the baby or the woman.
Spontaneous abortion - where the woman's body ends the pregnancy; this really is miscarriage.
Stillborn abortion - where the baby has died in the womb and needs a dignified and timely exit.
Medical abortion - where abortion must be done to preserve the woman's life, including her psychological life (in the case of rape or incest).

So for me, I'd make elective abortion illegal. Somehow, with elective abortion, the Supreme court decided that the rights of the woman were more important than the rights of the fetus. The fetus has no rights. The other 3 need to be kept legal for obvious reasons stated by you all.

But because it is legal in this country, many are choosing to abort fetuses that have been deemed "unfit". For example, my sister was asked, more than once, if she planned to continue her pregnancy after she found out that her son has Down's Syndrome. She could only conclude that she was asked because more than one woman had discovered something similiar and elected to abort the pregnancy, rather than carry through and have a special needs child or give the child up for adoption. I have two Down's Syndrome nephews as a result of my sister's and my SIL's courage and they are wonderful!! They do have special needs, but they also have special spirits and are a joy to be around. How can someone decide to give that up? And just because they can't handle it...why not give the baby a chance with a different family? whew...sorry...soapbox there.

One other thing...What people don't tell you about abortion is that it has the same kind of psychological trauma rate as soldiers serving in wars do...that is: there are just as many women severely traumatized by the choice and the event as there are soldiers are traumatized by active duty. They both leave terrible psychological scars, but that's not part of the pro-choice literature anywhere...no one wants to admit it. They're so busy protecting the woman's choice that they don't give her all the information to make the choice. hmmmm more of a soapbox. Hope you don't mind.

[natickgirl]

I like those 4 categories. Pretty much sums up the differences. However, I don't think the general population will ever overcome the negative connotation of the word "abortion" even if it is categorized. At least the health care providers and insurance companies will know the difference & treat/bill patients accordingly.

[5ft Diva]

Knowledge is power, though. I feel that if I were ever involved in a conversation concerning this subject I could rationally explain my views as there isn't just a black and white view on this issue as Dia has stated from the beginning.

Thank you, E for your informed insight!

[Dia Minha]

Wow, I had no idea how many people really had thought about this issue. I never really did until I was faced with it personally.

Thanks for your comments E. It is easy for me to express my feelings and share my experiences, but I have a really hard time with the details and actually giving logical explainations. And you do that so well.

[Erudite]

Actually, I was "pro-choice" for about 20 minutes one day when I was about 17. I had worked it out that no one was going to tell me what I could and couldn't do with my own body and I didn't want to dictate that to anyone else either, and that made me "pro-choice". I expressed these newly discovered thoughts to my sisters and they, appalled, pointed out that the "choice" involves another life. And that to make "the choice" means that another has his/her life taken...all so that my body could be my own. And 20 minutes later, I'm pro-life.

I think every woman probably has to go through some kind of thought process on the issue, whether or not she is faced with "the choice". It affects us all in some way or another, so that we give it some thought and test out our own thinking to understand it better. It's a good way to work things out. Thanks for starting the thread, Dia!

[mxmama]

Originally Posted by Dia Minha

I really think somebody just needs to redefine abortion and give these other procedures a new name and make it so everyone, hospitals, insurance companies, government and families can all use the same phrases. .

Thats sums it up right there! Well said!